How long have you worshiped at Saint Philip’s?
Since the summer of 2023.

Were you raised in a faith tradition?
Not really. My father was raised as an Episcopalian but in his adult years, he became “new age.” My mother was raised in the Methodist church and played in a bell choir for four years at a Presbyterian church.

I was in the Children’s Choir there until the bell choir disbanded and we stopped going to church. I didn’t go to church again until well into my adult years.

What brought you back to church?
Dating someone (Kyle) who goes to church every Sunday!

But even though I didn’t attend church for many years I didn’t abandon my belief in God. In fact, as a choral performer, I always feel closer to God and experience a sense of fulfillment when singing in church—which is pretty much all the time.

When on tour, choirs perform in churches. I’d sung in performances consistently through college but didn’t attend church outside of that until being in relationship with Kyle.

And when we moved to Los Angeles, I became a staff singer at All Saints Beverly Hills—which meant I attended every week.

What do you do professionally?
I’m a staff singer here at Saint Philip’s.

What do you like about your job?
Saint Philip’s program is robust and offers challenges so I can keep my musical chops sharp. I’ve been singing professionally in churches for 15-20 years now.

Did you plan this career?
Sort of. I’ve always been involved in music. I was six years old when I saw a commercial for the Tucson Boys Chorus. I pestered my mother until she called them to find out when auditions were.

During elementary school I sang in choirs and was part of the band and orchestra. In college I majored in Music Education.

Before Kyle and I had our kids I was a high school music teacher.

What’s taught in high school music?
I taught classical piano, classical guitar, and choral music. There are some schools that also offer music theory.

I also do everything else such as manage the choir. I’m not much of an instrumentalist, though.

What’s something that’s changed as you’ve matured?
I’ve learned to live and let live a bit more. In college I was extremely arrogant and thought that I was always right. I’ve since learned that disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean I have to be dismissive or judgmental.

How’d that come about?
Being out in the world and interacting with more people. Being a teacher took me out of my bubble—which was good because it helped open my eyes and mind to see how other people live.

What’s gotten better for you with age?
My spiritual life.

When I was younger I incorporated a few things from the Presbyterian church and the far left views of my father. But because I hadn’t received any formal teaching everything was amorphous. I had various ideas but no real philosophy.

As I’ve aged and had conversations with people—and attended church regularly—I’ve been able to refine what my relationship with God is. I don’t necessarily believe everything the church teaches but the scriptures give me a formula and structure for what I do believe.

Why does that matter to you?
It helps guide me as I raise our children. It gives me a framework for the kind of people I hope they become.

Who inspires you?
Lots of people. For this interview I’ll narrow it down to my father.

He had mild cognitive impairment as he aged but he refused to let it slow him down. He was an avid outdoorsman, and he’d made enough connections with people that there was always someone ready to help him go into the woods.

My father helped people in wheelchairs experience the woods and a hunt situation. The day before he had his stroke he was the leader of a guided dove hunt for people with disabilities. Even though he had some impairments he still was adamant about using his gifts and following his passions.

He had his stroke the day after his last hunt. The organization that runs that annual event named the hunt after him.

Is there a big decision you’ve made recently?
I’ve just gotten my Arizona Teachers Certification and am working on getting some substitute teaching jobs in the Catalina Foothills District. Next year I’ll see if there are any choral openings.

Thankfully, Saint Philip’s choir schedule doesn’t conflict with the school schedule so I can continue to sing here.

Is there something you would like more of in your life?
More professional work. Now that the kids are in school I look forward to being out of the house and working with more people.

I’ve been only a choir member since our children were born—eight years ago. I’d like to return to other musical aspects now. It’s a very different experience leading a choir than singing in one. I’m ready to do both.

Is there a rule you break regularly?
Saint Philip’s Director of Music, Justin Appel, doesn’t like us to take water bottles into the church but when I sing my water bottle and I are one!

What comforts you in the worst of times?
My family–being around people who I love and trust.

What’s a lesson you keep having to learn?
How to be organized. I struggle with that. I create long lists in my head but when I have free time I forget what I need to accomplish.

Why not write down your “to do” list?
I’m not wired that way. And since Kyle is wired that way (he writes out Plan G in case Plans A-F don’t work!) I leave that to him.

What do you do to relax/replenish yourself?
Music is something that always replenishes me. Anytime I can make music I do—probably to the annoyance of people who have to listen to me sing around the house. I play the piano, and I love reading.

What do you like to read?
Mostly fiction. Occasionally I’ll read a biography but I prefer stories. There’s no specific genre; I love science fiction, fantasy, and right now I find historical fiction particularly interesting.

What’s something you’re proud of?
I’m proud of my kids. They’re turning into special people.

Can you think of a decision you made that’s had a real impact on your life?
The biggest one is our decision to have kids. It’s a very purposeful action for two gay men as it can’t happen by accident.

The journey was exhausting and draining and long and emotionally difficult. There were many road bumps along the way.

I’m forever grateful, though, that we stuck to it and were confident in our decision. Our two children are certainly worth everything we went through.

Would you share some of that experience?
We started out considering adoption but the paperwork got lost in a bureauocrat’s office. We switched to surrogacy because we knew the timeline would be nine months.

Ironically, it took three years to get to the point of pregnancy. There were matches that started and then failed—a lot of ups and downs.

What do you tell your children?
All kids like to know their creation story. We’re two dads so we’ve always been upfront from the beginning—albeit with age appropriate explanations.

In general terms, we’ve explained there were some nice women who helped their fathers. The kids have seen pictures and there’s some contact; it’s always been a part of their reality.

Something happened this past Thanksgiving, right?
It was interesting. The kids were given a school assignment to write aletter to someone for whom they are thankful. Unprompted and without any discussion, Alexandra came home with a letter to the surrogate.

She thanked the surrogate for giving her life and helping her dads bring her into the world. Kyle and I made a copy and sent it to the surrogate.

What’s one of your core values?
I value acknowledging an objective reality. That seems to be a subjective thing these days. But facts and evidence matter.

How do you navigate today’s world?
I choose my news sources carefully. When I see something on Facebook that makes me emotional, I stop myself and check the facts. I also know that what I see on social media can’t be taken at face value.

What’s something you’re grateful for?
I’m grateful tobe close to family. I never thought I’d live in Tucson again. It’s not the greatest place for my career in terms of teaching pay and the number of positions available, but I wanted our kids to be close to their extended family. I’m very grateful those relationships are being fostered.

What’s one of your super powers?
I can be a calming presence. That’s especially helpful with my daughter who can have heightened emotions. I’m pretty good at helping her calm down.

What’s one of your guiding principles?
Take life one day at a time. So many unexpected things happened five years ago that I couldn’t have begun to imagine where I’d be right now.

Life is easier when I don’t try to plan too rigidly. I take one step at a time and see where it takes me.

What’s something about you that friends have said they really appreciate?
People always comment on my laugh. I’m a little self-conscious about it.

What’s something you haven’t done…yet?
Sky diving. At some point I’d love to experience that moment of free fall—right before the parachute opens.

Sky diving seems safer than base jumping (where I would jump off a big dam with a winged suit). I don’t actually want to die. In my mind, a parachute has plenty of time to open. But I can guarantee you that Kyle will not join me!

Have you had an unusual travel experience?
Kyle and I stayed in an ice hotel in Quebec, Canada. The beds are blocks of ice with animal furs on top, and we slept in sleeping bags on top of the furs. It’s so cold that the ice doesn’t melt; the high temperature is 30 degrees.

The bar serves drinks in glasses made out of ice. Even the chapel was all ice.