How long have you worshiped at Saint Philip’s?
Since September 2024

What about Saint Philip’s drew you in?
The high liturgy, the welcome by the clergy, the architecture, the preaching, the window, and of course the music.

I’m a church musician from my very beginning. Music is my world. Under other circumstances I’d be in the choir.

I started in the children’s choir at my little Episcopal church when I was seven years old. We sang everything from Benjamin Britten and Handel to all the music being written in the 1960s. I have nothing but extraordinarily powerful and warm feelings about the vast musical education I received.

Then I participated in secular choirs and lots and lots of ensembles. I ended up at St. Mark’s Cathedral in Minneapolis with its killer choir. All that makes me feel very much at home here.

The choir invited you to do more than sing, correct?
It did. It was in St. Mark’s choir where I felt the call to Holy Orders. I realized what I wanted to do with my entire life was liturgy, music, and prayer.

But another ten years passed between feeling the call and getting ordained.

What did you do during those years?
I was a student at the Free University of Berlin pursuing a degree in German and English Studies (the language, culture, and history from a historical and theoretical perspective). That helped me grow up into the faith experience.

I read the writings of Flannery O’Connor and the medieval mystics, and pretty much every paper I wrote was about the mystical or spiritual experience. A professor said I needed to pursue religious studies. I realized my next step had to be seminary but I finished the degree I had started.

I wanted to stay in Berlin (who wouldn’t?) so explored becoming a Lutheran pastor. But it just didn’t fit. I wanted to be an Episcopal priest.

How did you finally begin the path to ordination?
I returned to the United States and talked to my Bishop. After the regular discernment process he gave approval for me to attend the Lutheran Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota because that’s where I lived. And without a partner or any means of income, that option allowed me to attend seminary without accumulating thousands of dollars of debt.

I also spent a year at Church Divinity School in Berkeley, and what a wonderful year of Anglican education that was!

What was your ordained ministry?
My first role was as Chaplain at the University of Minnesota Episcopal Center. Those were seven of the most marvelous years of my life.

What made them so marvelous?
I was doing ministry on an international, national, and local level. It was the most thrilling set of challenges.

The Board decided to build a new Episcopal Center with student housing. It was electrifying to work with the architects and planners and deal with the city. I had a great project leader and Board so didn’t accomplish the goal alone.

And then there were the students—many of whom became priests. I was in just the right place for me at the time. We took students all over the world on service-learning missions.

The farthest missions I went on in later years were to Senegal and Tanzania. Each mission was about two to three weeks long.

What followed serving as a chaplain?
For the next fifteen years I pretty much became what is called a Church Transition Specialist. I was a glorified interim helping churches that had been through a lot. I did that in California and Minnesota.

What’s one of your super powers?
I’ll name two things: building community and spiritual care.

I love building relationships with people and pursuing connections. My head does that no matter what. I’m always trying to figure out how we’re related. It’s been a gratifying part of my life.

I also love preaching and that’s been well received.

What’s something you’re really passionate about?
Music and literature. They led me to theology but it’s still very much about music and literature.

Who are some of your favorite authors?
I’m kind of a snoot cake with literature.

Flannery O’Connor is still my first choice. She interpreted orthodoxy that let my mind sing. She brought it all home for me.

Cormac McCarthy can be incredibly violent but he’s a fantastic writer. I also love to read the classics.

I’m too tired at night to read German classics but I read German mysteries all the time.

How many languages do you speak?
I’m fluent in German and read French. Now I’m learning Spanish.

How are you involved at Saint Philip’s
We live about 40 minutes away from church so I can’t be as involved with music and other activities as I’d like to be. But we’re starting to attend whatever is offered on a Sunday morning.

Outside of that I also deliver communion and do some pastoral care home visits.

What’s a belief that you’ve let go of?
That everything is a big deal.

I like that I’ve turned down the drama a fair amount. Things just aren’t as big a deal as I used to feel they were.

How were you able to do that?
I’ve worked as a spiritual director for more than 30 years so guiding people into less drama and more God has had a wonderful influence on me. And my friend circle is filled with people who meditate so learning about that has made a big difference, too.

There’s a Latin phrase, “Solvitur Ambulando” which translates to “It is solved by walking.” I’ve become a huge walker—and pilgrimage person.

I think the practices of spiritual direction and walking have had the greatest influence on me. Not just doing them but teaching them.

What’s so special about a pilgrimage?
Absolutely everything about it is in harmony with who I am.

Who are you?
I’m a pilgrim. I’m someone who walks for a spiritual purpose that encompasses every part of their life.

But that doesn’t mean I stop at every church and have communion!

What’s your next pilgrimage?
From Lucca, Italy to Rome. It’s about 360 Kilometers (or 220 miles). That’ll happen in the fall of 2026.

What’s a lesson you keep having to learn?
That following my ego is overrated. When I was a young priest, appearances, salary, vestments, etc. were very seductive.

Now that I’m in the second half of my life and reviewing my choices, I think I made too many choices (both in the secular and professional realms) that fed my ego more than my faith.

But God was with me because most of the time the choices were still good ones.

What’s something that you find challenging?
A lot of things. Right now I would say the hardest thing is navigating close relationships in these politically charged times.

How do you do that?
In some cases I simply insist we don’t talk politics. And that’s worked some of the time.

What’s something you’re proud of?
My work as a spiritual director has been phenomenally rich and happy. It’s a place where I draw on things I had no idea I even knew. It’s been one of the greatest parts of my ministry. I never had a huge side business doing that but I’ve always worked with a few people.

What’s something you know now that your younger self didn’t?
That criticism doesn’t have to be such a big deal. I used to be so sensitive!

I remember seeing my dad fall apart when he received criticism and not wanting to be tortured like he was. But I reacted to criticism just like he did. I now understand his reaction—and mine—represented a wound.

What’s one of your core values?
Beauty.

It makes sense in terms of our faith. We worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness but there’s also holiness in beauty.

It’s almost classically Greek that when everything is harmonic then it’s usually also beautiful. Sometimes when things are beautiful they’re typically also joyful. There’s something transcendent about it.

That’s why church music and literature are so important to me; they’re beautiful. I hope you can hear that’s not a superficial thing.

What’s one of your guiding principles?
Acceptance with integrity. That doesn’t mean a doormat acceptance of everything. It means accepting that which can be challenging and believing that God is guiding us to more love.

What’s something you’re grateful for?
Golly. So much!

I’m grateful that I’m still here and kickin’. My family has tended to be very small and die young so it’s amazing that I still have family and am in reasonably good health.

What’s something about you that friends have said they really appreciate?
My sense of humor. It’s quirky and silly. Think slapstick and puns.

Have you done something new recently?
I married the love of my life.

What’s that story?
The short version is that we knew each other casually and decided to go on pilgrimage together. We fell in love on the journey, and married in March this year.

What’s something you have always wanted to do?
Play professional soccer.

What’s something you haven’t done that you’d still like to?
I’m pretty spontaneous so don’t have a bucket list. But I’ve never been to Asia and would very much like to visit Thailand, India, China, and Japan.

What might people be surprised to learn about you?
That I worshiped with the Quakers for a few years. It was before I was ordained, and it was absolutely wonderful.

I love the Quaker’s ethics and history, and would have stayed a Quaker but I learned that I need the liturgy.

What’s a fun fact about you?
I love listening to people’s accents and trying to figure out where they’re from. I’m not like Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady but I have a bit of experience and my guesses are often right.